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*UPDATED Pt II* Catholics and the homeless

**Scroll down for updates and opinions added on this topic**

The Catholic Archdiocese of Washington said Wednesday that it will be unable to continue the social service programs it runs for the District if the city doesn’t change a proposed same-sex marriage law, a threat that could affect tens of thousands of people the church helps with adoption, homelessness and health care.

WOW! 

Topics like this are something I tend to shy away from but what is going on here is just not right.

I’ve been falling away from the Catholic Church, where I was raised, for years now. Recent events tell me I’m headed in the right direction.  I cannot get into to expressing the things that yank my chain with this church and then this!

I’ve taken the basis of my Catholic upbringing and became more of a “Cafeteria” Catholic. You know… Pick and choose. I brought my daughter up in the Catholic Church and sent her through CCD (Catechism classes). I tried to be a good Catholic but a little over a year ago the guilt of missing church went away.

My feelings about the Catholic Church I’ve kept from Aunt Dot. She has gotten grumpier and grumpier as time goes on and I can’t blame her especially since she can’t walk anymore. At least she has stopped asking me about getting an Annulment. Every once-in-a-while she will mention something that is going on. Not to long ago she was telling me something about how the Church was kicking some people out because of a certain issue. Even though I was only on the phone when she told me about this I could almost see her among the Catholics with their torches.

Although I don’t agree with the Church on that issue I couldn’t help but ask her, “Why not just envelop these people with love and help them understand?”

She yelled, “NO!”

I was a bit taken aback, “You can’t help them understand by loving them???”

No! That’s not what Father says!”

So you just oust them?”

Yes.”

There was no use in talking to her, it was useless. As if she was in a cult and couldn’t think for herself. I won’t ever try and talk to her about any issues again.

I told Mini Red about this current issue and what the Catholic Church is doing. I try and answer any questions she has and let her make her own decision on topics. It’s kinda interesting to watch really.

She was outraged.

She was so outraged that she Facebooked it. 

Oh boy… Here comes another life lesson. A lesson on Politics and Religion among your peers in an open forum.

Here’s what happened:

Mini Red Facebook status: Did u hear that the church says that if D.C. lifts the law on Gay marraige they will no longer help with the homeless in D.C. Doesnt really seem Godly to stop helping others because u wanna just be a stuck up little BIshop (yes i did mean bitch)
 
Boy 1: i actually support the church on this one, gay marriage is wrong

Boy 2:  Well Boy 1 You are wrong in the fact that You do not chose to be gay or straight but it is in your genetics. So when you say wrong what are you saying, there made wrong, Well if they were ask god. If he wanted people that way he would have them that way. The Church is Fucked up

Boy 3:  fuck u Boy 1 there people just because u case a fucking republican douche bag doesnt mean u should hate gays

Boy 1: im like anti republican…. wat r u talking about… gays dont deserve rights.

Boy 3:  douchebag u think woman shouldent ether wtf asshole

Boy 1: ur an asshole, shut up faggot

Boy 3:  im an ass hole but i dont want to oppress gay people

Girl 1: Boy 1, get a life. I support gay marriage! And Boy 1…you may end up being one…

Boy 3:  i agree with Girl 1 

Girl 1: ^-^

Boy 3:  she agrees with Girl 1 too

Girl 1: dude u fail …that was me

Boy 3:  i know

Girl 1:  then why did you say she agrees with Girl 1 too? lol

Boy 3:  because im like that

Girl 1:  BOY 3

Boy 1: Excuse me? You guys are all retarded

Boy 3:  no just not fucking oppressive

Boy 1: —-No rights for gay people—-

Boy 3:  no rights for statists

Boy 1: i have no idea what that means

Girl 1: You are fucking retarded Boy 1…you should go to hell and live there…there may be a place for you.

Boy 1: u no what fine be like that Girl 1, fuck you, fuck you all

Boy 3:  because u r one

Girl 1:  Hey Boy 1 if you dnt support gay marriage then leave this status alone…its for people who support gay marriage…so fuck off and burn.

Boy 3:  DIE FAKE EMO DIE

Girl 1: I agree with Boy 3

Boy 3:  DIE BOY 1

Boy 1: DIE ALL OF U!!!! BOY 3 UR A FAG! GIRL 1 YOUR A BITCH! NOW BURN

Boy 3:  FUCK U BUSHES BITCH

Boy 1: I FUCKING HATE BUSH YOU RETARD

Boy 3:  BULL SHIT

Boy 1: I HATE BUSH, REPUBLICANS, MORMONS, AND GAYS

Girl 1:  This is pointless Boy 3

Boy 3:  BOY 1 THAT MAKES U A RETARD AND UR LIEING TO YOUR SELF SO DIE

Boy 1: burn in hell Boy 3, just like you can support gay rights, i can oppose gay rights

Girl 1:  Fuck this.

Boy 3:  ya really im done dude

Boy 1: me too

Boy 4:  FUK U BOY 1 U CANT BE HATING ON MORMONS…..IM GONNA FUK U UP TOMORO 😡

Boy 3:  ill help

Girl 1:  @Boy 4: LMAO

Mini Red turned to me last night and her face was red. She was so mad at Boy 1. There was so much she wanted to say.

I just put my hand on her shoulder and said, “You can’t change people. You can discuss calmly, if possible. More often than not you have agree to disagree. This conversation on your Facebook is not calm at all. Think very carefully before you put a topic such as this out in an open forum again.”

Personally I had a mix of emotions reading what these teenagers had to say.  It’s amazing to see them all become aware of the world around them and develop their own opinions. It’s also interesting how they handle it but violence is not the way.

So Mini Red defriended Boy 1.

****UPDATED with a very valid response****

From Will:

“I agree with the Archdiocese”

You know Red, I find it interesting that you brought this comment up. As you say that you usually shy away from these sorts of things, I think it is something that should be brought up.

I for one support the Archdiocese for its decision. At first glance, I was appalled. But as I really read and dug into the article I found that the Church has no other option than to severe its contract with the city.

If you read it closely, the D.C. City council is “not requiring religious organizations to perform or make space available for same-sex weddings. But [that] they would have to obey city laws prohibiting discrimination against gay men and lesbians.”

The problem is Red, the D.C. City Council is making a religious organization do something in which a religious organization does not believe in. As well, they would be required to offer, as the article quotes, “employee benefits to same-sex married couples”. This would mean that the Catholic Church would be required to acknowledge same sex marriage.

Which please do note, the article stated in quotations what is above…which means, the church does hire homosexuals and allows them into church. I guess its more tolerant than previously thought!

So if I’m the Archdiocese and I see this, I’m saying…we cannot agree to this…this is against some of our core beliefs! I mean, if we have a contract with the city as a social concerns program, we can’t keep our contract with the city or we would be breaking the law. I think we’re going to have to stop all of our social concerns contracts with the city.

Whats stunning to me is that the District is trying to put a law out that would make it illegal for my church to respectfully decline a same sex marriage because my church doesn’t recognize same sex marriage. Thats telling a religious organization what to do. Many are against the mixing of church and state, yet a government can now tell a religious organization what it can and can’t do….that is what is appalling.

They even voted against a referendum, which the Church supported, that would allow individuals, based on their religious beliefs, to decline to provide services for same-sex marriages.

Now, the church isnt saying that its not going to shelter the homeless, its not saying that they won’t do their duties of stewardship. What it IS saying is that based on this law…we can no longer have a contract with you as a social concerns organization. Sadly, yes, provisions for the homeless will be lessened and not as readily available as before…but not because the Church will no longer spend money on the homeless. While the Church was apart of the social concerns program for the city, the Church used $10 million of its own money for social concerns programs….The D.C.government, $8.2 million…not even half. The Church will do what it always has done for the homeless. However it will not use the aid from the City to do it since it cannot follow its new law.

Yes, some of the homeless might suffer, but not because of the Church. The Church has certain values which will not change and they have been this way for thousands of years.

The D.C. government is the one that is alienating certain religious groups based on this law. Yes, it is not saying that the Church has to perform same sex weddings; however, they must follow the law against discrimination against gays and lesbians…Thats stupid. Were not really going to make you do this, but if you don’t its against the law!Thats like 2 people having this conversation:

Girl #1: “I want you to prove your love to me by holding me tight in your arms.
Boy #1: Ok, so I’ll use my arms.
Girl #1: Well, im not saying you can’t use your arms, but you can’t use any of your limbs to do it.
Boy #1: So, can I use my legs?!
Girl #1: Well, I’m not saying that you can’t use your legs, but legs fall under the catergory of limbs…better yet, you really can’t do by touching me at all!

Its like talking to a wall!

(I think I got that conversation from one of the conversations with one of my ex’s)

If the law passes, there is no way out for the Church other than to cut off ties with the City and continue its service to the community on its own.

Don’t damn the Church, its the government forcing the Church to separate itself.

****Another valid response****

From Stephanie:

William, while your argument is well thought out and articulated I believe it misses the point that part of a government’s job is to promote social change and justice.  If an organization cannot accept an edict because of ‘religious beliefs’ then it should not get government money for its services.  50 years ago a church could have used the same excuse because of inter-racial marriage or woman working or voting or desegration of schools, etc.  Would you have a problem then with the Church’s position? Realize many of these things would not be accepted as social norms had the government not helped force the issue.  If the National Guard had not shown up to escort Vivian Malone and James Hood past Gov. Wallace and AL state troopers at University of AL do you think they would have ever made it in?

If an organization (whether commericial, public or religious) hires a person and does not offer it the same benefits as others then it is discrimination no matter how you frame it.

Discrimination should NOT be tolerated.  Not in the “Land of the Free”.

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5 comments on “*UPDATED Pt II* Catholics and the homeless

  1. Mini is very cool and graceful to love the enemy, but that status thread is completely hilarious. I kind of want to set the whole thing to music. I don’t know what to do with the emoticons, but the chorus will definitely be DIE FAKE EMO DIE.

  2. Stephanie, thank you so much for intergrating your opinion into the conversation! I love that so many people have an opinion about this and truthfully, i believe that part of your argument compliments my own in regards to the issue of the Catholic Church recieving money from the D.C. government.

    ” If an organization cannot accept an edict because of ‘religious beliefs’ then it should not get government money for its services.”

    This point is actually at the very heart of my defense of the Catholic Church. In all honesty, it would be immoral for the Church to recieve further funds from the District government if they are unable to comply with their laws. However, do not blame the Church for further participating with a government that refuses to be religiously tolerant.

    To answer your question about inter-racial marriage and the like, no, I would not agree with the Church if they were against it. However, the Church is not against it. Do not confuse the religious fanatasism of some “outspoken people” who perpetrate themselves as…”warriors of the faith”. They have done so under false pretexts. In short, people who say that they are speaking for the catholic faith are really speaking on their own personal political agenda.

    True ROMAN CATHOLICS, not cafeteria catholics (not a poke at you Red), did not believe and do not believe that inter-racial marriage is against the will of God. They did not and do not believe that womens rights are against the will of God. They did not and do not believe that the segregation of schools is God’s will. However, as far as same sex marriage, the Church does see that as against the will of God and against its core beliefs. (If you want to know why, let me know and we can go into further details).

    Yes, our government is great! I for one love my country! But keep in mind that it is not the government that helped force the issue or helped promote social change, its people…intelligent American people! Its people like Vivian Holmes and James Hood that have changed this nation. It is Muslims, Jews, Christians, Roman Catholics, Atheists, Agnostics, Hedonists and everyone that make up this country and our government. We elect our offcials and at times when they forget themselves, it is the PEOPLE that need to correct them.

    As for discrimination, I say it is a horrible thing! It should not be tolerated in the land of the free or in any land in the world. But for discrimination to exist it must be on an ARBITRARY basis. My question is, since when is a religious belief system an arbitrary basis and who in my government has the right to tell me that my beliefs are therefore arbitrary!

    Sigh…this is why this topic is so volital. It is difficult for any side to make progress. As for me, I am not trying to throw around platitudes as if I’m some sort of religious or political authority. I’m just hoping that one day the truth will come out.

  3. Discussions on religion and politics are always bound to end poorly, and when you combine the two; you get 5 kinds of Hell.

  4. Good on you, REd.

    I’m a Lutheran… you are welcome to join us.

  5. I like Wills response but dissagree with one part:
    “yet a government can now tell a religious organization what it can and can’t do….that is what is appalling.”
    As long as religious organizations are tax exempt then I would find it appaling if the govt COULDNT regulate them. Just as a number of churches lost their tax exempt status when the pastors endorsed candidates and parties from the pulpit, these regulations are to be expected for the benefit of having land and income at no cost.
    Now, if the church wants to negate it’s contract thats their option. But if they are truly concerned about the welfare of the homeless without sacrificng their beliefs, I would think they could funnel the monies they had wanted to put toward that cause through non-religious entities. The result: they continue to assist the innocent homeless and dont have to act contrarily to their morals.

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